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Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

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Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:07 pm

http://www.al-islam.org/fiqh/chap2.html



According to the book titled Fiqh and Fuqah chapter 2 it clealrly states "earlier Ulama wrote books in the form of collections of Hadith, indirectly indicating their opinions and verdicts by the selection of those Traditions which they considered sound. Their works never came out in the form of clear and direct fatwa."



It is quiet clear that the earlier ulema wrote there books in the form of collection of hadith by giving there verdict by "indirectly indicating their opinions and verdicts by the selection of those Traditions"


Now we will mention the Jurist consults of the early period; those who witnessed Ghaybat­e­Sughra:



l. Ali b. Babawayh Qummi, died in 329 AH., and was buried in Qum. His son, the famous Shaikh Sadooq is buried in the city of RAY. What must be noted is that while the son is famous as MUHADDITH (TRADIONIST), the father is a renowned FAQIH, and a man of FATWA.

Also I would like you to take a look at the following:-

http://www.al-islam.org/occultation_12imam/



3. The Imamite Learned Men's Attitude Towards the Second Occultation



As has already been indicated, during the period of the short occultation (260-329/874-941) more than two generations of Imamites were brought up under the careful supervision of the agents and with the teachings of the Imamite narrators (al-Muhaddith`un),in order that the new generation would recognize that religious authority derives from indirect communication with the hidden Imam, via his four Saf’irs.



Henceforth anyone claiming to be the Saf’ir of the Imam was considered an unbeliever and imposter. For this reason the Imamites cursed Muhammad b. Ahmad b. `Uthman al-Umari, known as Abu Bakr al-Baghdgdi, the nephew of the second Saf’ir,when he claimed that he was the Saf’ir of the Twelfth Imam. Al-Tusi gives an example of how the agents refrained from collecting' the khums:



Ahmad b. Muhammad b. al-Hasan b. al-Walid al-Qummi came to Basra as the representative of his father and the group (i.e. the agents in Qumm). The Imamites questioned him concerning rumours that he was the deputy of the Imam. But he denied them, saying: "I have no right in this matter" So they offered him money as a test, but he rejected it and said, "It is forbidden for me to take it, because I have no right in this matter (i.e. the deputyship of the Imam), and I have never made such a claim."





6. The Effect of the Complete Occultation on the Position of the Imamite Fuqaha'



the prolongation of the occultation of the Twelfth Imam enabled the Imamite fuqaha' to develop their role from mere narrators of traditions into mujtahidun. It has been noted that as regards legal statutes (al-Ahkam) the fuqaha' used to consult the Twelfth Imam via his four representatives during the time of the short occultation (260-329/874-941). In other words their main function was to narrate the traditions of the Imams, and they continued to perform this function in the early years of the second occultation.



Thus they rejected the arguments based on reason (`Aql) put forward first by Ibn `Aqil al-`Umam (in the first half of the fourth/tenth century and then by Ibn al-Junayd al-Askafi (d. 381/991). Both of these figures refined Imamite jurisprudence,put forward new ideas, separated the discussions about principles (usul) from those about subordinates (furu’) and based their method on the basic principles of jurisprudence. Their method was rejected by the Imamite Fuqaha' because it might lead to wrong inference in finding the religious rules.



They considered it a sort of wrong analogy (qiyas fasid) similar to that which was established and implemented by non-shi'ite jurists.



The prolongation of the Twelfth Imam's concealment, which was attacked by Zaydite scholars and others, led the Imamite jurists to introduce rational arguments in order to defend their belief in the existence of the Twelfth Imam



Men who had been mere narrators of traditions became scholastic theologians (Mutakallimun). This change in the role of the Fuqaha' can be seen in al-Mufid's works. His works mark a break with earlier Imamite writing like al-Saffar and al­Kulayni's works which are purely collections of traditions, whereas al-Mufid's are mainly treatises written in defence of the Imamite doctrine, in particular, the belief in the Twelfth Imam's occultation.



Al-Mufid also was a narrator of traditions (Muhaddith),but since he gave priority to the theological issues he was named the speaker of the Shiites (Mutakallim al-Shi'a). Moreover with the passing of time new situations arose to which the shari`a had to be applied, and since direct communication with the Twelfth Imam had come to an end, someone had to be found to give an answer to these questions. Thus the Imamite Fuqaha' expanded their role by undertaking Ijtihad to answer such questions and to fill the vacuum which had been brought about by the concealment of the Twelfth Imam. Al-Mufid may have been the first jurist to practice Ijtihad. Then al-Tusi (d.460/1067) gave a definite shape to it.


7. An Analysis of the Tawqi’ of the Fourth Saf’ir

the Imam ordered the fourth Saf’ir not to designate anyone to succeed him or to be in charge of his office, "wa-la tusi ila ahad fa-yaqum maqamak ba'd wafatik."


This clearly indicated the end of direct communication between the Imam and his Saf’irs and agents. Hence the Imam in the Tawqi denies that he will have any personal Saf’ir during the second occultation before his return:



“And someone shall come to my partisans (Shi`a) claiming that he has seen me; but beware of anyone claiming to have seen me before the rise of al-Sufyani and the outcry from the sky, for he shall be a slanderous liar”.



The highly developed activities of the organization, which continued for about 69 years between the years 260-329/874-941 were ended by the death-bed statement of the fourth Saf’ir as regards his successor: God would do what He wished in this matter, "Li-llah amr huwa balighuh."

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:51 am

Assalaamu `Alaykum,

Ijtihaad and Taqleed was heavily condemned by our `ulemaa until 7th century (mainly with `Allaamah Hillee).

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:33 am

Sorry Brother I forgot to welcome you to the group Smile we all hope to learn from you Inshallah. As for the above, what evidance do you have that Ijtihad was condemned?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:00 am

Assalaamu `Alaykum,
Silat_warrior110 wrote:As for the above, what evidance do you have that Ijtihad was condemned?
taqleed in our Shee`ah book have been seen as a negative way, all the aHaadeeth related about "taqleed" is in a negative form.

There is no SaHeeH hadeeth from the Imaams telling us to do taqleed.

Also, if you read Shaykh Toosi's Al-`Uddah, and some of the mutaqaddimeen scholars pre-Hillee, you'll see what I am saying.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:15 am

I am aware of the hadiths on Taqleed as been weak. Not only do these hadith go againgst 'Rijal' but also againgst the Quran. Have you got anything on Ijtihad?, specialy Al Uddah, what are your findings?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:13 am

Assalaamu `Alaykum,
Silat_warrior110 wrote:Have you got anything on Ijtihad?, specialy Al Uddah, what are your findings?
The word ijtihaad was also condemned. This word by the mutaqqadimeen scholars was used interchangeably with the word ra'y (personal opinion), which is another thing condemned in Shee`ah Islaam.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:41 am

Where is the evidance for this from Quran and Hadith? can you post any proof you have on this?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:03 pm

Assalaamu `Alaykum,
Silat_warrior110 wrote:Where is the evidance for this from Quran and Hadith? can you post any proof you have on this?
There is a whole chapter on Taqleed in Al-Kaafi, it shows the condemnation of it. Now there is not hadeeth that shows taqleed in a "good light". Also, Ra'y (opinion) has been condemned, now the classical scholars have made ra'y and ijtihaad interchangeably, meaning the same, until 'Allaamah Hillee. There is no hadeeth that talk about ra'y and ijtihaad meaning the same, these are scholarly interpretations from our classical scholars.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:46 pm

Yes off course, I agree with you totaly, so who do you believe was the first Mujthid?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:52 am

Assalaamu `Alaykum,
Silat_warrior110 wrote:Yes off course, I agree with you totaly, so who do you believe was the first Mujthid?
The first mujtahid in the sense that we know now was `Allaamah Hillee. This ijtihaad / taqleed is a Sunnee concept, which Al-Astraabaadee heavily critcized `Allaamah Hillee, because sometimes `Allaamah Hillee would quote Shaafi'ee's (leader of the sunnee madhhab) Al-Risaalah. Al-Astraabaadee's critcisms are `Allaamah Hillee are found in his Fawaa'id Al-Madaniyyah.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:53 am

and what about Sheikh Muffed? as to my understanding it was him?... why would Allmah Hille Quote Imam Shafies Risalah? correct me If I am wrong, but did he not claim to see Imam Zamana (ajf)?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:07 pm

Assalaamu `Alaykum
Silat_warrior110 wrote:and what about Sheikh Muffed? as to my understanding it was him?... why would Allmah Hille Quote Imam Shafies Risalah? correct me If I am wrong, but did he not claim to see Imam Zamana (ajf)?
Al-Mufeed was a HIGH scholar no doubt, but he was not your prototypical marja' that you have now. This marja system and ijtihaad and taqleed system was done by `Allaamah Al-Hillee. And the reason he has quotes Shaafi`ee's Al-Risaalah, was to prove some of his points. Al-Astraabaadee heavily criticized `Allaamah Hillee and he has used him quoting from Sunnee scholars to show that this taqleed / ijtihaad system is a Sunnee concept.

Plus, the maraaja' system that is around now is a complete joke. According to the people who "authentic" a mujtihad, there is only like 5-7 "qualified" scholars to do taqleed to, and only ONE comes from Al-Najaf (Sistaanee), everyone else is "unqualified".

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:53 pm

Yes you are right about that, the concept of most learned is not clear at all. Do you have anything of Allmah Hilli that shows him supporting Ijtihad and Taqleed?
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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Nader Zaveri on Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:53 am

Assalaamu `Alaykum

The famous slogan that is heard even today "All Mujtahids are right". Which means whichever you follow, and if their ruling happens to be wrong, you aren't "punished", because all mujtahids are right in their own way.

This is what Al-Toosi has said concerning this phrase.
فذهب أكثر المتكلّمين و الفقهاء إلى أنّ كلّ مجتهد مصيب في اجتهاده و في الحكم، و هو مذهب أبي عليّ و أبي هاشم «1»، و أبي الحسن «2»، و أكثر المتكلّمين، و إليه ذهب أبو حنيفة و أصحابه فيما حكاه أبو الحسن «3» عنهم، و قد حكى غيره من العلماء عن أبي حنيفة لافه
Bold part is the slogan "Every Mujtahid is right in his ijtihaad". Al-Toosi says this is the madhhab of Aboo Haneefah, and really talks harsh about this later on in the book.
Source:
  • Al-Toosi, Al-`Uddah, vol. 724 - 725


Now here is `Allaamah Hillee bringing in the concept of taqleed and ijtihaad.
الفقه لغة الفهم و عرفا العلم بالحكام الشرعية الفرعية المستدل على أعيانها بحيثلا يعلم كونها من الدين ضرورة فخرج العلم بالذوات و بالحكام العقيلة وكون الاجماع و خبر الواحد حجة و علم المقلد و الاصول الضرورة كالصلاة و الزكوة
"Fiqh, in its basic linguistic meaning, is understanding. Concentionally, it is knowledge of detailed sharee`ah values the status of which is inferred in so far as their being part of religion is not known by Darooratan (immediate certain knowledge). Hence (the following) are excluded: knowledge of essence, of rational (`aql), ijmaa`, or khabar al-waaHid (single khabar) are valid proofs in legal matters, the knowledge of the muqallid and the usool al-Durooriyyah (principle premise) such as Salaah and zakaah.
Source:
  • `Allaamah Hillee, Tahdheeb Al-WuSool 'ilaa `ilm Al-uSool, pg. 2b-3a (preface)

^^ As you can see he has used the word "muqallid" a person who is in taqleed. Taqleed was heavily criticized pre-hillee. ^^

Relatively the same thing is said in his taHreer Al-aHkaam.
العلم بالأحكام الشّرعية الفرعيّة المستدل على أعيانها بحيث لا يعلم كونها من الدّين ضرورة فخرج العلم بالذوات و الأحكام العقليّة و النقلية و التقليدية و علم واجب الوجود و الملائكة و أصول الشريعة و لا يرد إطلاق الفقيه على العالم بالبعض و كون الفقه مظنونا لأنّ المراد بالعلم الاستعداد التامّ المستند إلى أصول معلومة و ظنيّة الطّريق لا تنافي علميّة الحكم
Source:
`Allaamah Al-Hillee, TaHreer Al-aHkaam, vol. 1, pg. 2

And He brought this new philosophy, that if you do not follow you mujtahid's Hukm (judgment) then you are a sinner.
و على التقديرين، فالحكم معيّن، و كان تاركه مخطيا
"(if) a practice juristic Hukm (judgment) was established and ANYONE who neglected it was a SINNER (mukhti')"
Source:
  • `Allaamah Hillee, Tahdheeb Al-WuSool 'ilaa `ilm Al-uSool, pg. 2b-3a (preface)
  • `Allaamah Hillee, Mabaadi' Al-WuSool, pg. 245

^^ This philosophy is still found, if your marja' says something you must follow it! You can't question. This is what everyone says ^^

And here is Al-Hillee's definition of ijtihaad, the same definition we know now.
الاجتهاد: هو استفراغ الوسع في النّظر، فيما هو من المسائل الظنيّة الشرعيّة،
Source:
  • `Allaamah Al-Hillee, Mabaadi', pg. 240

^^ This is says that the faqeeh expends his efforts to derive a ruling of sharee`ah ^^

و كذلك لا يجوز لأحد من الأئمة عليهم السلام الاجتهاد عندنا، لأنّهم معصومون، و إنّما أخذوا الأحكام بتعليم الرسول عليه السلام، أو بإلهام من اللَّه تعالى.
و أما العلماء فيجوز لهم الاجتهاد، باستنباط الأحكام من العمومات، في القرآن و السنة، و بترجيح الأدلة المتعارضة.
أما بأخذ الحكم من القياس و الاستحسان فلا.
Source:
  • `Allaamah Al-Hillee, Mabaadi', pg. 241

^^ This basically says the Imaams (AS) and Rasoolillaah (SAWAS) weren't able to do ijtihaad but it is permissible for the `ulemaa to do it. ^^

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam

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Re: Taqleed a Sunnah or Bidah?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:10 am

excellent information..
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