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What is your view regarding this..

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Re: What is your view regarding this..

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:02 am

[color=black]Once again you have given me another irrelevant post. I have not interrupted anything but gone by the words of Sheikh Sadooq which are as follows "And our belief concerning those (sadat or alawiya) who act sinfully is that they will be punished doubly, and those who do good acts among them will receive a double reward "They are all equal to one another in view of the Prophet's saying!" Meaning the decendants of Mola Ali (as) and the decendants of Bibi Fatimah (sa) are the equal in the view of the Prophet (saw). In both cases Sadqah is haram upon them and is not haram for the populace. As for Sheikh Mufeed I was clearly illustrating that you should use him as a point of referance. On the basis that he did much research on the Childerens of the Aima (as). Therfore can you tell me from both historical and scriptural text that the Imam (as) had allowed there daugthers to marry none Hashmites or Syeds? becuase on the evidance it seems to show otherwise.

I do not see the issue with the statement of Mujthid Makreem Shirazi . There is no issue with a Hashmi female marrying a Ummti, however the hadiths and sources you are mentioning are not relevant to the marriage of a Syeda with a none Syed I would just like to clarify one point here, ‘Hashmi’ woman are not refered to as ‘Syeda’. Daba’a marrying Miqdad (rh) and the marriage of Zaynab bint Jahsh to Zayd ibn Harithah. I have not included the narration or verse here, however the same rule applys as Dhabia. Such decisions was a choice made by Allah(swt) and the Prophet(saw). As for the marriage of Dab’a this was done as a punishment by the holy prophet (saw) to humble her. What is interesting is the father if Zaynab, ‘Jahsh’. The question arises, was Zaynab father even Hashmi in the first place? The Quran mentions that the Arabs in Jahiliya (the period of ignorance or pre-islamic period) they used to bury their daughters alive. They was others who use to marry there mothers or sisters as this was a norm of society. When we even look at the Hashmies of them times, there was no concept of True Hashmi. However what should be noted is that the Prophet (saw) had around 14 aunts and uncles, to which not all converted to Islam. A lot of them where following the times of Jahiliya. The narrations that have been sited are all in referance to the marriage of a so called ‘hashmi’ female to a none hashmi, however let us not confuse the case of a female hashmi with a ‘Syeda’ who is from the offspring of the line of Syeda Fatimah(sa). Such hadiths have no concern a Syeda.


You will not find nothing here that is copy and pasted, alot of the Mujthids I mentioned, there information can be found over the net. What I did not mention is the name of a very famous one by the name of Marja Sheikh Basheer Hussain Najafi. This well known Marja has given the following fatwa regarding this very topic:-





From:


Ibrar Hussain (alnajafi_english@yahoo.com)

Sent:

06 March 2010 13:44:37

To:

[Edited](/mailto:]Edited]@hotmail.co.uk]][Edited][/url])



Salam my name is Syed Hussain, I have a Question regarding a issue related on marriage. Can a Syeda marry a None Syed ? what is his eminence view on this?

wasalam



Bismahe Subhana

In any instance where a syed-zadi’s marriage (nikah) to a non-syed causes disrespect to the syed-zadi and would be considered hayanat, it is not permitted in this instance.


Allah Knows Better

Bismahe Subhana

The Office of The Grand Ayatollah Al Uzma Sheikh Basheer Hussain Najafi

Najaf e Ashraf


If you would like to confirm this Email please feel free to contact them. Thus according to Mujthid Najafi if the marriage causes disrespect it should be avoided. Now still does not prove my case wrong. I find this disrespectful and so to does every other Sayyid I hope. Thus if such public awareness is made condemning such marriages then they should be avoided all together. Now can you answer my Question?

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Re: What is your view regarding this..

Post by Nader Zaveri on Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:14 am


And, that fatwa doesn't really show a harsh stance saying it is not permissible, it is actually dealing with the environment and `urf. So that has nothing to do with the issue of marriage per se.

I have given numerous strong fataawa that says it is permissible for them to marry, and you have given me ONE fatwa that doesn't say it is NOT permissible, but weighs it based off of society and how they will be viewed. You have to read into their fatwas a little bit hard, because it is very easy to overlook these points.

Wa `Alaykum Assalaam


Brother Nader,

Many many appologies, I have deleted your post by mistake Embarassed

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Re: What is your view regarding this..

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:05 am

The words of Sheikh Sadooq (rh) are clearly self explanatory. The fatwa I present from above is a clear example of a disagreement between the Fatwas which you have previously presented as for the example:-

Q [16] I have read on your site that it is permissible for a syed girl to marry a non syed boy. Are there any conditions to this?

A It is permissible and there are no specific conditions.


As I said before I do not totaly agree with the rulling of Bashir Hussain however it does not change my views in the slightest. As the previous fatwa says there is "no specific conditions", where as we find from the above "where the marriage causes disrespect it should be avoided "(as shown form the bashir hussain najafis rulling). This is precisely one of my points. That if socitey finds such a marriage as unacceptable then it should not be done. I presented several rullings from Mujthids as I have given above, but most importantly I have given you historical facts fromt the lives of the Aima (as). now my point still remains the same, which you have failed to provide me with. Name me one of the Imams (as) daugthers who married a none Syed? (Mazallah)
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Re: What is your view regarding this..

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:31 pm

Brother Nader, Wasalam.

Sorry for your post!

I believe what the brother is asking you for is proof from the Aima Ma'sumin (as) and the Qur'an. That is not the same as someone saying ''Yes it's permisible' or 'no, it's haram'!

You keep referring back to the fatwa's of fallible men who have many disagreements even between themselves over what should be halal and haram.

What I can see in a nutshell from brother Silats posts is, hadith (even if it's weak) tells us that certain people were only for each other ''our sons for our daughters''. We see that history conforms to that ABSOLUTELY! Unless you can name a single Imam (As)s daughter that was married to a none Syed?

There has been evidence cited from history such as the incident with Isa bin Zaid (ra) etc showing that it was better to die then for such a marriage to take place!

What proof from the Qur'an and hadith can you bring to the table in contrast to brother Silats posts? He is asking if EVEN ONE daughter of the Imams (as) married a none Syed. Is there a reference or incident in history that can wrap this up?

It shouldn't should be too hard of it's a bida brother.

Maula (as) waris.
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