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Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

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Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:30 am

Does anyone know why there are more Zaidi Syeds in Pakistan and India then any where else in the world? I hear most Zaidi Syeds were Zaidis by sect and then addopted this title "Sayed" themselves after many centuries, some even call themselves Abdides also what is your view on this?

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by redeemer on Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Salaam,
Ali Ali

I’m naqvi myself, some cousins in my family have married into Zaidi’s and they're definitely Sayed (at least as much as husseini's, abidi's, jafferies, rizvi's, naqvi's, 'shahs', etc can be called Syed's). My family always demand an authentic shijra to verify, regardless what Syed they are, and we also provide.

But I dont understand why it matters if there are more Zaidi's in India/Pakistan than anywhere else?
There are more Naqvi's in indo/pak than anywhere else, more Rizvi's in indo/pak than anywhere else, more Jafferie’s, Kazmi's etc but you can get fake syeds in all of them – it’s not down to numbers. In fact there are simply more Syeds in Indo/Pak than anywhere else in the world, period, does that mean they’re all fake? I don’t get it. Don’t get me wrong, there are many fake Syeds around, but you can’t judge that on numbers and location.
It has been said Husseini Syed’s are fake because Imam sajjad (as) was the only son that survived Imam Hussein (as). Others counter this by saying children of Ali Akbar survived or others who counter by saying that 'Husseinis' just changed their name and they are from another Imam e.g. Imam Sajjad – I haven't looked into this myself so I take it with pinch of salt for now - People love to claim things about syeds without evidence. So anyone who claims to be Syed I will regard as Syed until proven otherwise.

However, I'v always looked into different Syed's and their stories. Always found it interesting. Zaidi's are similar to Rizvi's in this respect. That is, both of these changed there Syed names to something different a very long time ago: All Zaidi Syeds are actually Abidi's (from 4th imam as) and all Rizvi's are actually Taqvi's (there is no such thing as 'Rizvi' in technical sense)

Imam Raza (as) only had one son and that was Imam Taqi (as). So since there were no other sons - Rizvi's dont really exist. All Rizvi’s are actually Taqvi’s and are the descendants of Imam Taqi (as) that adopted the name 'Rizvi' and the reason for this is one of two:
One reason apparently says that Imam Taqi (as) himself told his other son to take name of his father (Imam Raza as) since he was ghareeb.
second reason, and apparently the real reason, is many Taqvi's early on changed name to Rizvi since it was associated with royalty (Imam Raza became associated with Persian empire, namely Khorasan) so they chose that name due to its prestige. This is why today, you hardly hear name Taqvi, but Rizvi is very popular. It’s historical fact that Imam Raza (as) only had one son according to historians. Most Rizvi’s probably don’t realise this or aware they’re Taqvi.

Similar with Zaidi's. They took the name of Zaid because of his famous uprising which made the Imam’s (as) pray for him and for his renowned piety. It was Imam Baqir (as) and his brother Zaid who together compiled the dua's and saying of their father into a book today known as Sahiffa Sajjadiya.
By taking the name 'Zaidi' they were labelling themselves the descendant of Imam Sajjad Zain-al-Abideen (as) (i.e. Abidi Syed) through specifically his son Zaid who has been praised through history. As oppose to other ‘Abidi’ Syeds who are also a descendant of the 4th Imam (as) but through one of the other, lesser-known sons (Imam Sajjad (as) had over 10 sons). Early descendants of Zaid were proud and thus they adopted his name also. They were twelver-shias from then until today. There are many Zaidi-Syeds in Iraq and Iran too. (remember the “shoe-thrower”)

To be honest, we see these name changes all the time. I mean how many ‘Bukharis’ and ‘Shahs’ are there that call themselves Syeds? There are more Shahs, Bukharis and Naqvis in indo/pak than anywhere in world – doesn't mean you can doubt them. Bukharis adopted the name due to their roots from Bukhara in ancient Persia (which is today in Uzbekistan). I am a Naqvi and my roots, at some point, can be found in Persia but our name never changed. Verifying an authentic shijra is best way to clear doubts. Fake Syeds exist on all forms of the names.

Interesting thing is, I asked an Iraqi scholar of the Modarassi family - who was a ‘Husseini’ Syed - about the different Syeds and their roots. He told me himself that he was a descendant of Imam sajjad (as) through Hazrat Zaid! But they kept name ‘Husseini’. In fact he said that most ‘Husseini’ Syeds are from Zaid but they don’t realise it which means lots of the 'Husseini' Syeds in Iraq & Iran are from Zaid. Not sure how true that is but there you go.
Anyway, the idea that all Zaidi Syeds are from the Zaidi-sect and adopted ‘Sayed’ is extremely far-fetched and totally inaccurate. The descendants of Zaid are practically all twelver shias. It was other people, non-syeds, who elevated the status of Zaid later in his absence and formed Zaidi sect, predominantly in Yemen. Zaid had many sons so his lineage exists.

The Zaidi Syeds are definitely genuine and have been known as “Zaidi Wasiti’s”. They are very famous in history and most of them in India/Pak descend from “Abul Farah Wasiti” who travelled to India from Iraq in the 11th century with his four sons. So there is certainly going to be loads of them there now after 800 years. They removed the name ‘Wasiti’ since they were not in Iraq anymore. (Wasiti is City in Iraq).
More info on their history on websites below; scroll down to the bottom under ‘Al-Zaidi’ and ‘Zaidi Wasitis’ where they are totally differentiated from the Zaidi-sect followers as the descendants of Zaid.

http://www.reference.com/browse/Zaidiyyah
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/242471
(taken from article, Cornelis van Arendonk: Les débuts de l'imamat Zaidite au Yemen, Leyde, Brill 1960)

Looking into the history of other Syeds is also very interesting,

Hope that helps
Ya Ali Madad (as)
fulan fulan fulan bhar lanat


Last edited by redeemer on Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:23 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Wsalam, Ya Ali (as) Madad,

Thank you very much for your post Redeemer Smile

by the way, we do a simple bar umer lanat beyshumar here Smile

Maula (as) waris.

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:47 pm

Salam, interesting post however I would like yoour add comment. As for a start I agree to 95% of your post execpt in the issue to Rizvi sayeds.

"However, I'v always looked into different Syed's and their stories. Always found it interesting. Zaidi's are similar to Rizvi's in this respect. That is, both of these changed there Syed names to something different a very long time ago: All Zaidi Syeds are actually Abidi's (from 4th imam as) and all Rizvi's are actually Taqvi's (there is no such thing as 'Rizvi' in technical sense)"

There is evidance that shows Imam Ali Raza (as) did have other sons, specialy with the discovery of a Shrine in India most recently where the Iranian confirmed that it was a Imam Zadh, but as for everything else it is true..

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by alialiali on Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:26 pm

redeemer wrote:Salaam,
Ali Ali

I’m naqvi myself, some cousins in my family have married into Zaidi’s and they're definitely Sayed (at least as much as husseini's, abidi's, jafferies, rizvi's, naqvi's, 'shahs', etc can be called Syed's). My family always demand an authentic shijra to verify, regardless what Syed they are, and we also provide.

But I dont understand why it matters if there are more Zaidi's in India/Pakistan than anywhere else?
There are more Naqvi's in indo/pak than anywhere else, more Rizvi's in indo/pak than anywhere else, more Jafferie’s, Kazmi's etc but you can get fake syeds in all of them – it’s not down to numbers. In fact there are simply more Syeds in Indo/Pak than anywhere else in the world, period, does that mean they’re all fake? I don’t get it. Don’t get me wrong, there are many fake Syeds around, but you can’t judge that on numbers and location.
It has been said Husseini Syed’s are fake because Imam sajjad (as) was the only son that survived Imam Hussein (as). Others counter this by saying children of Ali Akbar survived or others who counter by saying that 'Husseinis' just changed their name and they are from another Imam e.g. Imam Sajjad – I haven't looked into this myself so I take it with pinch of salt for now - People love to claim things about syeds without evidence. So anyone who claims to be Syed I will regard as Syed until proven otherwise.

However, I'v always looked into different Syed's and their stories. Always found it interesting. Zaidi's are similar to Rizvi's in this respect. That is, both of these changed there Syed names to something different a very long time ago: All Zaidi Syeds are actually Abidi's (from 4th imam as) and all Rizvi's are actually Taqvi's (there is no such thing as 'Rizvi' in technical sense)

Imam Raza (as) only had one son and that was Imam Taqi (as). So since there were no other sons - Rizvi's dont really exist. All Rizvi’s are actually Taqvi’s and are the descendants of Imam Taqi (as) that adopted the name 'Rizvi' and the reason for this is one of two:
One reason apparently says that Imam Taqi (as) himself told his other son to take name of his father (Imam Raza as) since he was ghareeb.
second reason, and apparently the real reason, is many Taqvi's early on changed name to Rizvi since it was associated with royalty (Imam Raza became associated with Persian empire, namely Khorasan) so they chose that name due to its prestige. This is why today, you hardly hear name Taqvi, but Rizvi is very popular. It’s historical fact that Imam Raza (as) only had one son according to historians. Most Rizvi’s probably don’t realise this or aware they’re Taqvi.

Similar with Zaidi's. They took the name of Zaid because of his famous uprising which made the Imam’s (as) pray for him and for his renowned piety. It was Imam Baqir (as) and his brother Zaid who together compiled the dua's and saying of their father into a book today known as Sahiffa Sajjadiya.
By taking the name 'Zaidi' they were labelling themselves the descendant of Imam Sajjad Zain-al-Abideen (as) (i.e. Abidi Syed) through specifically his son Zaid who has been praised through history. As oppose to other ‘Abidi’ Syeds who are also a descendant of the 4th Imam (as) but through one of the other, lesser-known sons (Imam Sajjad (as) had over 10 sons). Early descendants of Zaid were proud and thus they adopted his name also. They were twelver-shias from then until today. There are many Zaidi-Syeds in Iraq and Iran too. (remember the “shoe-thrower”)

To be honest, we see these name changes all the time. I mean how many ‘Bukharis’ and ‘Shahs’ are there that call themselves Syeds? There are more Shahs, Bukharis and Naqvis in indo/pak than anywhere in world – doesn't mean you can doubt them. Bukharis adopted the name due to their roots from Bukhara in ancient Persia (which is today in Uzbekistan). I am a Naqvi and my roots, at some point, can be found in Persia but our name never changed. Verifying an authentic shijra is best way to clear doubts. Fake Syeds exist on all forms of the names.

Interesting thing is, I asked an Iraqi scholar of the Modarassi family - who was a ‘Husseini’ Syed - about the different Syeds and their roots. He told me himself that he was a descendant of Imam sajjad (as) through Hazrat Zaid! But they kept name ‘Husseini’. In fact he said that most ‘Husseini’ Syeds are from Zaid but they don’t realise it which means lots of the 'Husseini' Syeds in Iraq & Iran are from Zaid. Not sure how true that is but there you go.
Anyway, the idea that all Zaidi Syeds are from the Zaidi-sect and adopted ‘Sayed’ is extremely far-fetched and totally inaccurate. The descendants of Zaid are practically all twelver shias. It was other people, non-syeds, who elevated the status of Zaid later in his absence and formed Zaidi sect, predominantly in Yemen. Zaid had many sons so his lineage exists.

The Zaidi Syeds are definitely genuine and have been known as “Zaidi Wasiti’s”. They are very famous in history and most of them in India/Pak descend from “Abul Farah Wasiti” who travelled to India from Iraq in the 11th century with his four sons. So there is certainly going to be loads of them there now after 800 years. They removed the name ‘Wasiti’ since they were not in Iraq anymore. (Wasiti is City in Iraq).
More info on their history on websites below; scroll down to the bottom under ‘Al-Zaidi’ and ‘Zaidi Wasitis’ where they are totally differentiated from the Zaidi-sect followers as the descendants of Zaid.

http://www.reference.com/browse/Zaidiyyah
http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/242471
(taken from article, Cornelis van Arendonk: Les débuts de l'imamat Zaidite au Yemen, Leyde, Brill 1960)

Looking into the history of other Syeds is also very interesting,

Hope that helps
Ya Ali Madad (as)
fulan fulan fulan bhar lanat

yes brother from another mother
nice post redeemer, its nice to see a brother who studies shijras, i believe its a sign of a momin,
yes theres plenty of syeds in pakistan, i see alot of competition between syeds of whos the better syed, obviously thats only maula (saw) badshah to know, but we are talking about the physucal nearness, its obvious since all imams (saW) are one, its the naqvi lineage which comes to the closest link, so out of all syeds in the world it is the naqvis who have the closest physical connection.

badshah Hazrat Syed Jalaluddin Surkh-Posh Bukhari whom was a companion of bashah lal shahbaz qalander, was your great great great, grandad, it has been told that badshah Jalaluddin Surkh-Posh Bukhari, shown the fuqarah line to guru nank, who became a shia faqeer and disappeared from the world.


would you know more about badshah hazarat imam jafar saani (ra) (also known as jafar tawaab by many non naqvi syeds)?

i only ask you this question since you studied the shajrah and you may know of what areas i am talking about..



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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:20 pm

Mashallah, a keen interest in sadaath lineages brother alialiali, are you a Syed?

Naqvi Syed? lol

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by alialiali on Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:58 pm

thanks. alhumdlillah, yes im a naqvi, thanks brother azadaar, how about yourself?

i see my religion as sadaath as sadaath is the string that connects to badhshah maula (saw) physically and any physical connection can become a spiritual connection if maula (saw) wills. So jio syeds...






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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:15 pm

alialiali wrote:thanks. alhumdlillah, yes im a naqvi, thanks brother azadaar, how about yourself?

i see my religion as sadaath as sadaath is the string that connects to badhshah maula (saw) physically and any physical connection can become a spiritual connection if maula (saw) wills. So jio syeds...


Oh really? Then why did you say the following in this thread...


http://ajareresalat.forum5.info/post.forum?mode=quote&p=378

alialiali wrote:
anyways, i have no knowledge lol but i put up alittle fight lol. wish i was a syed lol the amount of sticking up i do for em lol i should be granted syedness lol.

thanks again brothers, good answers.


Were you granted 'Syedness' in your sleep last night???


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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:42 am

LooooooL well why not? Salman became Ahlulbayt ?

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by alialiali on Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:21 pm

lol, here i was thinking im in your good books lol, wel i wish i was a syed,,, how?? spiritually.,,,inshallah.

khomini was a syed, sistani is a sayed, your a syed i think, women who are syed marrying nonsyed men say they are syed so are their kids, many people claim syed physically. physcial has no place for real in my view, working your way towards the spiritual side of syed is a true syed, if you cant do that then you too can wish as i do.

syed is like a boxer, you hold the title when you enter this world and you have to fight to keep hold of this title till you die.

but to be honest, i hide me being a syed as i find it makes non syeds feel lower. But im begining to think twice about that...

anyways sorry guys, nice catch though, you must be watching me carefully lol quite funny though can somone delete my post joking.. back to the topic ehem zaidi syeds....

many thanks brothers


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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:47 am



"anyways sorry guys, nice catch though, you must be watching me carefully"

LoooooL



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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Alihaqhaider on Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:05 pm

Very good post by redeemer
I always admire a person who takes interest in the history of sadaat. In fact, much research has been done on the syed/non-syed history in India/Pakistan. I'm not sure how people suddenly come up with the idea that 'oh most of them were zaidi sect and that's why there are so many in sub-continent' LOL (that's not a swipe at questioner silat_warrior, it's at people who make rubbish up)

I was doing some research into my own shijra (Rizvi) and found out that Zaidi syed's are in fact among the most authentic syeds in the world...

The academic scholar, Saiyid Athar Abbas Rizvi, states about Zaidi-Syeds of India from sadaat e bara (who descend from Abul Farah, as redeemer mentioned):
"they are considered among the most authentic Sayyids, along with the saadats or sayyids of Jais and Nasirabad, of Raebareli district. One of the verifiable reasons is that they have a longstanding tradition of maintaining their Shajra-e-Nasab (Syed family tree,) which was an easily verifiable document copied by hand until this day."
Source:A Socio-Intellectual History of the Isna 'Ashari Shi'is in India by Saiyid Athar Abbas Rizvi Volume 1 Delhi Munshiram Manoharlal
Apparently the Zaidi-Syeds were more meticulous about verifying and writing down shijras than other people through the centuries

Anyway you should read the other works by this great author/scholar (Athar Rizvi - Im proud he's a rizvi Smile).. he has some very detailed, academic research on the shias of India/Pak from 7th century onwards

Ya Aliyy

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by SYED ZULFIQAR ALI SHAH on Fri May 06, 2011 3:06 am

YA ALI MADAD
janab ap q aisy topic discus kr rahy hain jo fasad ka sabab bany jo kuch b ho sadat sadat hain aur according to our fiqqa ap py sadat ka ahtram wajib hai ap k is trahk topc ye behs fazool sawalat tamam dunya daikh rahe hai ap ki is behs ki waja sy kafi masyel paida ho skty hain and agr ap zaidi or rizvi py aitraz krty ho tu sirf sadat ki bdnami hai balky fiqa ki b hm sb sadat apis mai bhai hain chahy zaidi ho riziv ho naqvi ho bukhari ho jafri ho kazmi ho mosvi ho jo b ho aj ap kisi ka ahtraam kro gy tu ap ka b kal log ahtram karein gy aur dosron py aitraz krny sy behter ye hota hia k aik bar apny gereeban mai jhank k daikh lok ap kitny pani mai ho phr aitraz kro aur jis nasal syed py b aitraz kro gy bdnami us aik ki nae sb ki ho ge q hamara khandan to aik hai na aur apny kapry utarny sy insan khud hi nanga ho ta hai
stu mehrbani kr k aisy mufr ki bhs na karein jis sy sadat aur masomeem

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:49 pm

Ya Ali (as) Madad

Sorry brother Zulfiqar, are you able to translate the above post into English?

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Re: Does anyone Know about Zaidi Syeds?

Post by syed zaidi on Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:19 am

Asalam o Alekum

I belong to Zaidi syed family my name is Syed Sheeraz hussain Zaidi my Father name is Syed Hassan Askari Zaidi my grand father name is Syed Atta Hussain Zaidi and my grand Fathers- Father name is Syed Fazal Hussain Zaidi.


Respect to the above chain is it possible that if any one can help me finding complete tree of my family futher more my grand farher belongs to india (Delhi) and in my previous 4 generation one martyr was passed namely syed Habib ullah shah. 


Thanks,

Syed Sheeraz Hussain Zaidi. 

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