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who was the first ever faqeer?

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who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by alialiali on Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:25 pm

hello brothers, just a question of own interest,

who was the first faqeeer ever?

when and where did the line of fukharah begin?

is there a certain sign,symbol, a characteristic of a faqeer?

is there a tareekah, a way of fuqarah path,? how can one attain, succeed in the fuqarah lway to become a faqeer? just like sufism which wasn't a sect.

would be interesting to see how many of maula's (saw) shias know... especially you knowledgeable brothers on here
thank you

badshah shehan shah maula (saw) haq, ya Allah , Ali (saw) madet,


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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:29 am

From ancient days asceticism and the abandonment of worldly attachments has been regarded as a means of purification of the spirit and important for the character. Consequently, those who wished to lead a life of abstemiousness and meditation used to go out of the cities and towns to stay in forests and caves in the mountains and stay there concentrating on Allah according to their own conception. They would eat only if a casual traveller or the inhabitant of nearby dwellings gave them anything to eat, otherwise they remained contented with the fruits of wild trees and the water of the streams, and thus they passed their life. This way of worship commenced in a way that was forced by the oppression and hardships of rulers. Certain people left their houses and, in order to avoid their grip, hid themselves in some wilderness or cave in a mountain, engaging themselves in worship of and devotion to Allah. Later on, this forced asceticism acquired a voluntary form and people began to retire to caves and hollows of their own volition. Thus it became an accepted way that whoever aimed at spiritual development retired to some corner after severing himself from all worldly ties. This method remained in vogue for centuries and even now some traces of this way of worship are found among the Buddhists and the Christians.

The moderate views of Islam do not, however, accord with the monastic life, because for attaining spiritual development it does not advocate the abandonment of worldly enjoyments and successes, nor does it view with approbation that a Muslim should leave his house and fellow men and busy himself in formal worship, hiding in some corner. The conception of worship in Islam is not confined to a few particular rites, but it regards the earning of one's livelihood through lawful means, mutual sympathy and good behaviour, and co-operation and assistance also to be important constituents of worship. If an individual ignores worldly rights and obligations and does not fulfil his responsibility towards his wife and children, nor occupies himself in efforts to earn a livelihood, but all the time stays in meditation, he ruins his life and does not fulfil the purpose of living. If this were Allah's aim, what would have the need for creating and populating the world when there was already a category of creatures who were all the time engaged in worshipping and adoration.

Nature has made man to stand on the cross-roads at which the midway is the centre of guidance. If he deviates from this point of moderateness even a bit, this way or that way, there is shear misguidance for him. That midway is that he should neither bend towards this world to such an extent as to ignore the next life, devoting himself entirely to this one, nor should he abstain from this world so as not to have any connection with anything of it, confining himself to some corner leaving everything else. Since Allah has created man in this world he should follow the code of life for living in this world, and should partake of the comforts and pleasures bestowed by Allah within moderate limits. The eating and using of things made lawful by Allah is not against Allah's worship, but rather Allah has created these things for the very purpose that they should be taken advantage of. That is why those who were the chosen of Allah lived in this world with others and ate and drank like others. They did not feel the need to turn their faces away from the people of the world, and to adopt the wilderness or the caves of mountains as their abodes, or to live in distant spots. On the other hand they remembered Allah, remained disentangled from worldly affairs, and did not forget death despite the pleasures and comforts of life.

I hope this might answer your Questions..

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by alialiali on Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:40 am

thanks for the reply. what your saying is a faqeer is not a good thing and faqeeri is also against islam.



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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:50 am

Individuals who put on the cloak of Sufism and make a loud show of their spiritual greatness are cut off from the path of Islam and are ignorant of its wide teachings. They have been misled by Satan and, relying on their self-formed conceptions, tread wrongful paths. Eventually their misguidance becomes so serious that they begin to regard their leaders as having attained such a level that their word is as the word of Allah and their act is as the act of Allah. Sometimes they regard themselves beyond all the bounds and limitations of religious law and consider every evil act to be lawful for them. So I hope that answers your Question...

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:04 am

Ya Ali Madad

Brother Silat, i think you may be generalising a little there.

Fakr is a mode of living taught by islam and the Aimma (as).

Lets begin with what it actually is.

Fakr (aestheticism/non materiality) is the foregoing of personal welath for the betterment of society.

A fakir divests himself/herself of all worldly possessions for the sake of Allah (swt)'s pleasure to help others.

A fakir guards his or her nafs from evils and sins for the sake of Allah(swt)'s pleasure.

A fakir enjoins good and forbids evil for the sake of Allah (swt)'s pleasure.

A fakir remembers (does zikr) of Allah (swt) and the Aimma (as) for the sake of Allah(swt)'s pleasure.

Anyone who tries to accumulate wealth, who does evil or does not forbid evil, who does not perform remembrance, who does not protect his/her nafs and does not work for the betterment of society is not a fakir in any true sense of the word.

Fakr is the practical implementation of the sharing and divestiture of wealth as taught by the Aimma (as) and which was in turn manipulated by latter day thinkers to become communism and socialism.

The first fakirs were Hazrat Salman Muhamadi (as) and Hazrat Abu Zarr Ghaffari.

They emulated their spiritual and religious Masters, the Aimma (as) and spent their wealth in the way of Allah (swt).

There are examples of this fakr even before then, as the masters of Fakr, these being Syeda Khudija (sa) and Hazrat Abu Talib (as) who spent all their wealth in the way of Allah (swt) and enjoined the truth (haq) and forbid the evil.

Syed ul Bataha the forefather of the Aimma (as) and also banu hashim is also recorded in history as having spent all his wealth for the sake of Allah (swt) by feeding the people of arabia with his wealth during a time of famine and drought.

This is fakr, and it is the spirit of Islam.

As far as charlatanry, that is prevalent in all aspects of life, whether it be mullahs, medicine, philosophy etc. So to dismiss something based on its misuse is never an intelligent response.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:08 am

Deviation from faith and irreligiousness is usually a result of when one becomes a Faqir. Its unlawful principles are called "at-tariqah" the followers of these ways was first started by Abu Hashim al-Kufi and Shami adopted this nickname of the word Sufi. He was of Umayyad descent and a fatalist (believing that man is bound to act as pre-ordained by Allah). The reason for giving him this name was that, in order to make a show of his asceticism and fear for Allah, he put on a woollen cloak in which cases you find present so called fakirs adopting to this with their sindhi scarfs. Never the less later on this nickname Sufi as for the meanings of these words they form 3 letters, "sad", "waw" and "fa'". "sad" stands for "sabr" (endurance), "sidq" (truthfulness) and "safa" (purity of heart); "waw" stands for "wudd" (love), "wird" (repeating Allah's name) and "wafa'" (faithfulness to Allah), and "fa'" stands for "fard" (unity), "faqr" (destitution) and "fana'" (death or absorption in Allah's Self). Which you try to demonstarte above about posting about the several holy personalitys above. Now the Question is can you support a single hadith or sermon where the Aima (as) approved of living life of asceticism?

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:18 am

On that note I would just like to add a Sermon from Nahjul Balagha, where the Imam Ali (as) himself condemns somone for living such life style:-

Sermon 208

Amir al-mu'minin went to enquire about the health of his companion al-`Ala' ibn Ziyad al-Harithi and when he noticed the vastness of his house he said:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What will you do with this vast house in this world, although you need this house more in the next world. If you want to take it to the next world you could entertain in it guests and be regardful of kinship and discharge all (your) obligations according to their accrual. In this way you will be able to take it to the next world.

Then al-`Ala' said to him:O' Amir al-mu'minin, I want to complain to you about my brother `Asim ibn Ziyad.

Amir al-mu'minin enquired:What is the matter with him?

al-`Ala' said: He has put on a woollen coat and cut himself away from the world.

Amir al-mu'minin said: Present him to me.

When he came Amir al-mu'minin said: O' enemy of yourself. Certainly, the evil (Satan) has misguided you. Do you feel no pity for your wife and your children? Do you believe that if you use those things which Allah has made lawful for you, He will dislike you? You are too unimportant for Allah to do so.

He said: O' Amir al-mu'minin, you also put on coarse dress and eat rough food.

Then he replied:Woe be to you, I am not like you. Certainly, Allah, the Sublime, has made it obligatory on true leaders that they should maintain themselves at the level of low people so that the poor do not cry over their poverty.

Now please read the conditions set by the Imam (as) to live life of a Faqir and not just ones we make up ourself.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:26 am

Sorry brother but did you even bother to read what i had written?

Asceticism is leading a non material and strictly austere life.
What you are describing is abstention and seclusion where someone lives the life of a recluse who shuns social interactions.

The khutba you are referring to is admonishing someone who gave up the upkeep of his wife and children.
Who made haram on himself the enjoyment of his wife etc.

Now notwithstanding the irrelevance of your post, can you address the points in mine in a simple, lucid, non digressing manner?

Oh and sawuf is also the arabic word for nearness. It is the root of the word tassawuf which is seeking a means of nearness.
The explanation you have given for the word is not its linguistic meaning and is something not shared by everyone.
Furthermore this is for sufi's and this thread is NOT about sufis it is about faqirs...those who lead a simple life for the pleasure of Allah (swt).




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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:52 pm

Firstly to understand Zuhud one must understand both the Shia and Suffi view of it. The current form of Zuhud which is addopted by the Faqir has never been promoted by any of the Aima (as). I agree totaly in the concept of Zuhud as per the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (as). However can you please elaborate on what you regard as a Faqir and how he lives his life?

Does he marry?

How does he dress?

Does he beg?

Does he Sharia apply to him?

What sort of food does he eat?

Does he work?


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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:58 pm

As for the meaning of the word "Sufi" I have presented the oldest meaning of the word based on evidance from the early Shia Akhbaries as for the other meanings, we can also consider the use of the word "as-Suffah", this was a platform near the Prophet's (saw) mosque which had a covering of date-palm leaves. Those who stayed there were called Ashabu'Suffah (people of the platform). The third meaning of the word "Sufi" is given to a Arab tribe was Sufah, and this tribe performed the duties of serving the pilgrims and the Kabah, and it is with reference to their connection with this tribe that these people were called Sufis. If you have another meaning of the word then please feel free to share it us all and base it from facts of History or a Hadith of the Aima (as).

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by alialiali on Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:05 pm

hi

thanks for the replies brother. I agree with both of you to a certrain extent. i couldnt really name or define maula (saw) companions as faqeers.

We seem to be struggling with the Definitions of the 2 and we also seem to be struggling to understand that both are seperate from each other.
From what my understanding is, a sufi is not a faqeer and a faqeer is not a sufi. The definition of the faqeer i am talking about is a saint. who was the first ever saint?

silat warrior, its interesting you mentioned certain leaders and groups who follow men who claim to be called Allah, where do these certain ideas come from? im asking as i have heard of this before but didnt really believe such claims were being made out there?

many thanks

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:39 pm

Just take a look at this video and it will explain the type of Faqeers we have at present..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Naekfxx9uPc

Now ask yourself is this Islam?

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:02 pm

And I would love to see my answers to the above post which brother rational mind did not answer... As you can see from the above video this is the present day Fakirs. Here is another example for you where a whabbies exposes them ...


Watch it from 3 mins 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVWBpQvMLBk&feature=related

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by alialiali on Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:40 pm

thats very interesting to see. Again, some people claim to be faqeers some allah, some claim to be a prophets, it doesnt mean allah isnt real or prophets are fake or faqeers are unreal, it just means the one that claimed it is lost.

So its pointless giving examples of people who claim to be faqeers when obviosuly they are not where near it.

But silat warrior, i have to agree with you, some of our shia do got alittle too far and extra.... but we also can't forget that its all about the intention, which wahabis fail to grasp.....

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:02 am

Silat_warrior110 wrote:Firstly to understand Zuhud one must understand both the Shia and Suffi view of it. The current form of Zuhud which is addopted by the Faqir has never been promoted by any of the Aima (as). I agree totaly in the concept of Zuhud as per the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (as). However can you please elaborate on what you regard as a Faqir and how he lives his life?

Does he marry?

How does he dress?

Does he beg?

Does he Sharia apply to him?

What sort of food does he eat?

Does he work?


Once again brother Silat, can you answer how this is relevant to the question asked by brother AliAliAli?

I fail to see the relevance of your questions.

If you wish to discuss the merits or ideological veracity of common day self proclaimed faqeers then open up a new thread on it, but dont digress in this thread.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:05 am

Can you show how the Aimma (as) have told us to practice zuhd?

By the way, i am sure you will agree that zuhd is not the same as faqar as zuhd is about abstention from sin and precaution in all actions.

Faqar is more about spending in the name of Allah(swt) and forsaking the acquirement of wealth and worldly possessions by spending them for the sake of Allah (swt).

As i mentioned the foremost practitioners of this were the Banu Hashim in propagating Islam.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:28 am

As for the meaning of the word "Sufi" I have presented the oldest meaning of the word based on evidance from the early Shia Akhbaries as for the other meanings, we can also consider the use of the word "as-Suffah", this was a platform near the Prophet's (saw) mosque which had a covering of date-palm leaves. Those who stayed there were called Ashabu'Suffah (people of the platform). The third meaning of the word "Sufi" is given to a Arab tribe was Sufah, and this tribe performed the duties of serving the pilgrims and the Kabah, and it is with reference to their connection with this tribe that these people were called Sufis. If you have another meaning of the word then please feel free to share it us all and base it from facts of History or a Hadith of the Aima (as).

Unless akhbari deviants were around during the proclamation and propagation of early Islam, then these people do not have the authority to redefine arabic words according to their proposed arguments.

Also to correct you: The meaning of sawuf as swad wao and fey standing fo;r Su’wad represents sabr (patience), sidq (sincerity), safa (purity)Wa’oo represents wu’du (friendship), wird (practice), wafa (fidelity) Fay represents fard (detachments), faqr (poverty), fana (annihilation) was first stated by junaid baghdadi who was around circa 910 AD.

Are you claiming he was an akhbari?

The biggest support for sawuf and asceticism is the ashaab e sufaa who you are no doubt aware of since you have mentioned them.

These asahaab did not marry, had no personal wealth and relied on charity to live. But they were loved by the Prophet (saww) as devoted and sincere muslims.
Interestingly, they also wore a woolen sufa (smock) which was their distinguishing apparel.

I think had you been around at the time, you would have certainly pointed it out to them that in several hundred years, their lifestyle and habits will most certainly be proved wrong by obscure and misguided scholars and that they should stop their behaviour.

The fact that the Prophet (saww) of Islam condoned their selfless and non materialistic devotion kind of destroys your argument brother Silat.
This is faqar as it is remembrance in the way of Allah (swt) whilst shunning materialism. So yes they were amongst the first faqeers.

What you have failed to mention in your slightly one sided posts brother Silat is that the word 'sawuf' has been argued etymologically to have derived from 'soof' [wool] ie the woolen ones as this was their dress; 'safaa' for purity because it is alleged that these people are pure and 'sawaf' meaning unique, as they are like no others.

But terminology of sufism and these words is NOT the issue.
I think i have adequately shown the brother about faqeers in response to his initial question that these practices did exist at the time of the Prophet (saww) and are in the true spirit of Islam.



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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:41 am

Silat_warrior110 wrote:Just take a look at this video and it will explain the type of Faqeers we have at present..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Naekfxx9uPc

Now ask yourself is this Islam?

Sorry to burst your righteous bubble but the person whom you have shown is a proclaimed ayatullah and a scholar. How are you negating faqar with this clip?

I fail to see the relevance of your post (AGAIN) with the posited question.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:43 am

Silat_warrior110 wrote:And I would love to see my answers to the above post which brother rational mind did not answer... As you can see from the above video this is the present day Fakirs. Here is another example for you where a whabbies exposes them ...


Watch it from 3 mins 30 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVWBpQvMLBk&feature=related

Oh hang on....this post, my god, now you are quoting wahabi criticisms in ....oh wait yes, ANOTHER irrelevant post!

Come on brother Silat, even you can do better than this.
Answer the question posed, and dont digress.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:41 pm

Brother it does not take a genius to figure out that a whabbie mufti has has done the video, but facts still remian the same.... I suggest you to watch all the videos and it will show you and others what present day Faqirs are really like.


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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:20 am

Silat_warrior110 wrote:Brother it does not take a genius to figure out that a whabbie mufti has has done the video, but facts still remian the same.... I suggest you to watch all the videos and it will show you and others what present day Faqirs are really like.


I will go S L O W L Y for you brother, i couldn't give a *%$£ about what the present day faqirs look like or what criticisms any one else has of them!
Are you willing to change everything because of wahabi objections/criticisms? i hope you are not going to use that argument as it will show an ignorance of fact and an insincerity of faith!

How people perceive faqeers or how they are seen is neither here nor there.
Faqeers are not tight ars**d, greedy, power hungry, religion tampering mullas who force you to follow them and make up evidence to prove their points based on garbled polemics!

So if you have a problem with faqeers then fine, go open up another thread, but the next time you post an irrelevant post in this topic, i will delete it.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by alialiali on Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:23 pm

easy lions. they are good replies and posts. none are irrelevant posts. as brother silaat is right. theres alot of fake faqeers. there is a path called sufism, darvish and theres many others that are and wil be born, this is why it becomes confusing as all are showing many acts which are forbidden in islam.

From my understanding and im sure many will agree.

A faqeer (saint) is not chosen by the people, just like the followers of hz lal shahbaaz qalander paak will tell you, people dont elect a leader they dont label or choose a qalander, same works here, people dont elect, choose,label a faqeer,,, badshah shehan shah maula (saw) does...... (i dare give maula ali (saw) example of imamath in this as thats far too high to use).

sainthood/faqeeri is from badshah eh zamana... faqeers on the fuqarah line are known less to the soil made creatures, but are known more by creatures who are made of fire eat fire and wear fire, creatures that are made from air eat air and wear air.

humans like you and me won't really know of faqeers, the ones you will recognise will be the fake. which silaat brother succeeds in and has made many of us aware of. Which again is a good thing.

im not sure if any of you guys remember there was a new post i made a while ago, asking a question about the postman the qasid that went to paak maula hussain (saw) just after hz paak badhah ali akber (as) shahdat, this qasid was holding a letter sent by bibi sughra (sa).

now then, we all know at this time the tents in karbala were surrounded by yazeedis, even a bird couldnt fly by or step on the land without it getting split open by arrows.... how did this postman/qasid get in? who was he? another point, you me and all shias know PAAKS (saw) do not need a postman a 3rd person to communicate???, so again who was this qasid? how did he get in? what did he see? we also know many offered help to maula including the angel gibrael (as) they were turned away.

theres nohay recited about this particualr event about the qasid entering karbala to deliver a letter. He is the deliverer.

This qasid enters the scene of the tents burning from this sight, the qasid picks up a burning object and begins the azadari the matham of fire, along with this he engraves a symbol from this fire, which is symbolic for all fuqaqeeers and is a sign of a faqeer.

the qasid was the 1st ever faqeer on earth, he has been given a name by his followers no one knows who he truely was some say he was badshah shehanshah maula ya ali (saW).....

from here on the faqeeri line began and continues til this day, hz badshah jilaludeen lal posht was also a faqeeer even though he was seen as a sufi by many,,,, taqya...

now again this is somthing i have been taught, somthing that has been passed down from a naqvi lineage. I have no evidences texts books to provide to you guys at this moment in time, its somthing you can agree or disagree and if you feel it warrants an investigation then why not.


just wanted to introduce to you, the first ever faqeer.

anyways,
many thanks brothers.













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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:51 am

Brother Ali Ali ALli, sorry to say i dont accept a word of what you have stated.

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Silat_warrior110 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:41 am

why not?

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Re: who was the first ever faqeer?

Post by Rational Mind on Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:13 am

why should i?

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