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Azadari4Imam update

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Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:07 am

Assalaam Alaikum all,

Do you want to know the ruling of Imam ZAMAN (atfs) on Azadari for Imam Hussein a.s???

Do you want to see Mulla Bassim perform Tatbir???

The fatwas from ALL the Maraje' on Azadari for Imam Hussein a.s???

The founder of Ahlulbayt TV permissing ALL forms of AZADARI???

As well as Hujjatul Islam Seyed Mohammad Mousawi's opinions on AZADARI

and many more updated interviews in ENGLISH, FARSI, ARABIC, AND URDU...

Check out this amazing eye opening website

www.azadari4imam.org

and please tell all those you know insha'Allah

Khoda Hafiz

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:52 pm

Wa Alaiykum Assalam, Ya Ali (as) MAdad

Nice website but from a quick glimpse, it seems to be directed more towards fatwas from marjas then teachings of the Masumin (As).

Also, could you also post some information on this forum?

Many thanks,

Maula (as) waris Smile
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:12 am

Assalam Alaikum,

You can insha'Allah email your comments, suggestions or any feedback to the team at
their email address

contact@azadari4imam.org

as I am actually not part of the team Smile

and I am sure they will welcome any comments or suggestions you may have

Thanks

Khoda Hafiz

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:50 pm

as is typical....when presented with this website the anti azadari brigade call it false and misleading *rolls eyes*

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:42 pm

I am Disgusted that the so called shias have actually reported those momins behind this book to the autorities - and the authorities are taking it seriously - and are encouraging all members of sc who support them to do the same.

is there no level that they will not stoop to to stop azadari for imam hussain?!?! have they lost all fear of judgement day?!?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:43 pm

This is the first I am hearing of this! What has happened?
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:51 pm

something to do with accusing them of breaching the UK Data protection act by sending the booklet to only shia homes....they are saying thats illegal what they did since they got the addresses without permission, and they didnt send it via referrals since a few members know that they couldnt have been referred by anyone. the website has been reported to someone at an email support@discountasp.net....and they are being accused of lying and changing/misrepresenting fatwas.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:46 pm

does someone know how i can get a load of the booklets for me to distribute around manchester? the only way i can contribute in some small way and counter their rubbish is by spreading the word.

May the enemies of azadari feel the slap of bibi paak (sa) in this life and the next ameen.

*edit* oh damn i think i just deleted a post by mistake Embarassed

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:58 am

Salaam alaikum,

If you contact the site and put your enquiry to them, they will advise you insha'Allah..

For the links for ShiaChat conversations:


Azadari4Imam conversation

Azadari4Imam and the Golden Envelope
Zanjeer Zani and Malangs
Scholars and Opinions on Tatbeer

The Azadaris will not be silenced this year alhamdulillah..
Insha'Allah may Allah and the Ahlul Bayt a.s guide those to knowledge

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:10 pm

Unfortunately LabaykYaHussain (as), most of us have already been banned from the above website due to our differing views. However we would LOVE a chance for them to speak to us here so we can correct them Inshallah.

Sadly, I won't hold my breath for that but I was curious, who is Mulla Basim and what is the significance of him doing Tatbir?
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:35 pm

Salaam Alakium,

Lol, was it diferring views about Azadari by any chance?

A number of threads have been started this Muharram on ShiaChat claiming the acts of Zangeer Zani/Qameh Zani/Tatbir were not permissible acts, and new fatwas have been released by Maraja to confirm this.

Users have also claimed the site www.azadari4imam.org contained inaccurate information and lies regarding the permissibility of tatbir/zanjeer zani.

Alhamdulillah, this year the Azadaris for Imam Hussein a.s have put them in their place and will not allow these oppressors of Azadari and all the permissible acts to succeed with their misinforming people.

They have been corrected and proved wrong time after time with their false claims that the site is firstly, incorrect and inaccurate, and secondly that the acts of tatbir and qameh zani are haram.

As Sayed Hussein Qazwini even mentioned this year live on ABTV, 99.9% of marajas' agree that tatbir is permissible.

Insha'Allah this helps.

May Allah and the Ahlul Bayt a.s continue to guide us all insha'Allah.


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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:40 pm

Wa alaiykum Asalam, Ya Ali (as) Madad.

To be honest brother, Azadari wasn't really an issue whilst many of us were there as it's a very very simple argument. It was more to do with taqleed that they hated and banned us.

If you're on facebook I can send you a link for a debate that took place there with the staunchest enemies of Azadari?
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:43 pm

Yeah unfortunately this year they have really come out with the hating of it, saying such and such has bought out a new fatwa or these azadaris are twisiting this and that.

It is just the usual rubbish they are spouting and trying to cause confusion into peoples mind.

It's like they keep saying, if you don't want to do it, don't do it, otherwise stay out of it and keep your mouths shut. But unfortuantely they can't!!

Is that the debate on ABTV discussion forum out of curiousity???

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:01 pm

No, not the ABTV debate but that is also a part of the Ajareresalat team. This is the debate I am referring to although some members that participated are no longer using facebook so their posts don't show.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=173580610074&v=app_2373072738&ref=ts#!/topic.php?uid=173580610074&topic=9173

Trying to argue with them using fatwas and speeches from marjas is not a very good argument as what you will find is that many marjas disagree in almost every issue. It is why if you try using such an argument you will never get anywhere on those websites. Has one considered that even a marja may make contradictory statements during their lives? They are just people, they can make mistakes or in some cases, even lie (although I am not claiming they have or did lie).

Rather then argue which marja has said what or what fatwa have been issued where, isn't it is a much better idea to ask what the noble Qur'an and the teachings of the Masumin (as) tell us of a certain issue?

I know of one hadith that states:



Our Holy Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq (a.s.) said:
‘Everything is permissible unless there is a prohibition order for it.’
WASAAIL US SHIA – VOL 6 CH 19 H 7997


So one must ask, if the marja are stating something (including forms of Azaradi) are haram, then where is their proof from the Qur'an or hadith? I for one am certainly not interested in a fallible mans opinion of something so important.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:22 pm

Thanks for the post.

I will check this link out!!

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:49 am

usually i would be posting in defence...but alhamdulillah you guys are doing an absolutely smashing job, definately the best defence of azadari since ive been on the boards.

if i might make a suggestion to the webmaster, to provide scans of the signed fatwas that they have along with their translations? that would be absolutely the last nail in the coffin.

i find it tragically comedic that their marjas cannot even agree on whether music or chess is halal or haram or even when eid is...yet all of a sudden when azadari comes up they all magically have ijma *rolls eyes*




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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:33 pm

Maula Dha Mallang wrote:
if i might make a suggestion to the webmaster, to provide scans of the signed fatwas that they have along with their translations? that would be absolutely the last nail in the coffin.

i find it tragically comedic that their marjas cannot even agree on whether music or chess is halal or haram or even when eid is...yet all of a sudden when azadari comes up they all magically have ijma *rolls eyes*


Salaam Alikum,

Could you email that suggestion to the guys at the site? I dont actually work for them

contact@azadari4imam.org

And I agree totally with your point, it just highlights their incompotence

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:34 pm

LabaykYaHussain a.s wrote:
Maula Dha Mallang wrote:
if i might make a suggestion to the webmaster, to provide scans of the signed fatwas that they have along with their translations? that would be absolutely the last nail in the coffin.

i find it tragically comedic that their marjas cannot even agree on whether music or chess is halal or haram or even when eid is...yet all of a sudden when azadari comes up they all magically have ijma *rolls eyes*


Salaam Alikum,

Could you email that suggestion to the guys at the site? I dont actually work for them

contact@azadari4imam.org

And I agree totally with your point, it just highlights their incompotence

^^^^^^^^ Refering to the Maraja there

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Almaz on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:20 pm

Salaam alaikum

Peace and blessing be upon the Prophet Mohammad and his holy family
May allah curse the oppressors of the Ahlul Bayt (as)

Haj Agha Makki is talking on tatbir (Ghame-zani) in Islamic centre as part of Banihashem Foundation program on this coming Thursday at 7:00. The talk will be in Farsi. The English version of the talk will be given on the coming Saturday at 6:15.

No doubt this may include some reference to an email sent by Azadari4Imam condeming their shameful newsletter: http://www.ic-el.com/en/show_news.asp?idnum=34&state=article

Even thought Haj Agha Makki was present (and he praised brother Mohammad Amin after his speech, he also sat there and did not say a word), I don't think he will be pro Tatbir. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxDvYotGHdQ&feature=related

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:35 pm

Salaam alakium..

In response to the above post, and the link to the newsletter of Islamic Centre England where the article was written........

This is the reply sent by Azadari4Imam.org....

Degrading Allah, the Ahlulbayt (as),
and the Grand Maraje'

Muharram December 2010

A newsletter has been published by the Islamic Centre of England, endorsed by its authorities, in which the first spread of the newsletter was devoted to an article titled "A Beautiful Remembrance of Imam Hussain (as)" by Anousheh Mireskandari.

Using this title, the article disrespected the Ahlulbayt (as) and the narrations from the Ahlulbayt (as) regarding commemorating the martyrdom of Imam Husein (as), saying the first form of mourning for Imam Husein (as) happened after the release of the captives (i.e. the family of Imam Husein (as)), despite the fact that the writer of the article was not informed enough as to know that according to the narrations from the Ahlulbayt (as), the first to mourn for the tragedy of Imam Husein (as) was Allah (swt), and then all the Great Prophets right down to Messenger of Islam (saw), whom whilst Hazrate Zahra (sa) was pregnant with Imam Husein (as), Archangel Gabriel (as) came down to the Prophet Mohammad (saw) and revealed to Him the tragedies that would occur to Imam Hussain (as), and it was here that the Prophet of Allah (saw) started crying and mourning for Imam Husein (as)!

Even if we speak about the mourning of those who were taken captive by Yazid, the first time they mourned for Imam Husein (as) was not once they were released, rather it was in the desert of Karbala where Hazrat Rubab (sa) and the rest of the women beat their faces and chests! This has been clearly stated in Ziyarat Nahiyeh which is recited by our current Imam Zamaan (atfs)!
لاطمات الخدود

It was in Sham opposite Yazid's palace where Hazrate Zainab (sa) hit her head on the wooden bar, causing blood to flow!
Ferdous al-A'laa, Page 19
Majales ul-Faakhera, Page 298
Bihar ul-Anwar, Vol 35

The article then continues to disrespect all of the Grand Maraje' and leading Ulama who have issued fatawa regarding the permissibility of various forms of azadari such as beating one's chest, hitting oneself with chains, and striking one's head with a blade, with most Grand Maraje' stating these actions are mustahab (recommended) and some even stating them to be Wajib Kefai. The article accused the Grand Maraje' and leading Ulama of being "under Christian influences", and labelled the forms of Azadari which they have stated permissible as being "extreme".

They did not stop there however, futher referring to the Grand Maraje' as "a small minority of narrow minded individuals", all published in the newsletter of the Islamic Centre of England. What is surprising is how the offices of the Grand Maraje' and Ulama in London have stayed silent about this issue, and have not answered or issued a statement against these allegations and degrading statements.

Here a few thoughts come to mind. If I am a representative of a Marja and know that he is a true Marja, then why have I not defended the right of this Marja? Why have I not defended the right of this representative of Imam Zamaan (atfs) and, in effect, the rights of his followers? And if I don't believe that the Marja I am representing is a true Marja, then why am I representing him?

Mr X, Y and Z, who are the representatives of the Grand Maraje' like Ayatollah al-Udhma Sistani, Ayatollah al-Udhma Araki, Ayatollah al-Udhma Golpayagani and Ayatollah al-Udhma Khoei, are you not aware that they are disrespecting you, the office of your Marja, and the Maraje' you represent, whilst you have stayed silent?!

Furthermore, not only has this newsletter disrespected all of the Grand Maraje', it has even gone so far as to disrespect and degrade Imam Khomeini through saying "Imam Khomeini (ra) asked his followers not to follow these ritual actions. The most clear and unequivocal rulings came from the successor to Imam Khomeini (r) Ayatollah Khamenei who in his usually bold and courageous stand issued the following fatwa..." Through these statements, they wanted to say that Imam Khomeini was scared to speak clearly about the issue, and that his knowledge was less than Khamenei, despite the fact that these are all false allegations are degrading statements. Imam Khomeini never said that the various forms of Azadari (including hitting oneself with chains and striking one's head with a blade) are impermissible, and we have proofs that he said they were permissible.

The Main Offices of the Grand Maraje' have provided Azadari4Imam stamped Fatawa endorsing all practices of Azadari. All statements are available on our website and latest book. If you come across anyone (including representative offices of the Maraje') claiming that these statements may be false then report this issue to us and we are prepared to come on Live Satellite and prove that their comments are false, so that people are aware of the truth.

We have a team of representatives from all fields, including Ulema, and the Main Offices of the Maraje' are supporting us one hundred percent and will speak out against any false comments made under their name.




I think the worst thing about this particular centre is the large revert community it attracts (and misleads) with their pro Khamenie ideas ..

Insha'Allah may we all be guided


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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:26 am

LabaykYaHussain a.s wrote:I think the worst thing about this particular centre is the large revert community it attracts (and misleads) with their pro Khamenie ideas ..

Insha'Allah may we all be guided


brother the problem is that when you are a revert, (to borrow imam ali (as) saying), your mind is like an uncultivated field. whatever is planted there will grow and flower. if a revert was to see azadari in the context that it is meant to be portrayed in they do not have to take part if they disagree, but at least they will have a chance to understand and respect the azadars decisions.

when you come in fresh and its made to appear that only a few ignorant paki villagers do it who are extreme...the damage done both to the individual revert and later on down the line are massive, because we are always fighting on the back foot.

my attitude has always been simple; even if you have all the fatwas from all the marjas in history who say it is haram, if a momin with a clean, pure intention does azadari, does allah, does bibi paak (sa) not know his intention? will he not be rewarded for his intention inshallah?

then, if mr anti-azadari comes along and starts planting the seeds of doubt in that momins mind, so that the momin eventually turns away from azadari, wont the person who stopped this azadari be punished?

why is it so hard for these people to live and let live?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:20 am

Unfortunately these anti azadari police don't ever offer the option of 'it isn't wajib', it's more something along the lines of 'these are misguided and don't listen to them' which as you said, ends up causing a huge line of damage.

People will look at a pro azadari person and then try to lower their worth or status somehow to try to discredit them.

It's like a dangerous cocktail of misguidance and knowledge for the revert, because once the reverted person does gain other knowledge on other subjects, which may of course be correct, they are then able to 'guide' others to this way of thinking too.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:40 am

exactly. the question therefore is, what can we do, in order to promote a positive (and more realistic) image of azadari? the arguments against are broadly split into two - "what will people think/what about gaza/ unity with sunnis" and "my marja says no".

when our opposition is better funded, has all this propaganda in its favour, and is seen as the "mainstream", how can we explain to a revert that what we are doing is not as bad as they want to portray?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:56 pm

Well it seems that 'most' maraja' actually allow these forms of Azadari, but somehow that is not very clear?
So where is the confusion coming from?

I have heard lots of people say 'my maraja' allows it!?' and then they seem a little cheated for not realising all these years.

Insha'Allah brother, the truth always prevails, the word on Azadari is getting out alhamdulillah and there are many people who are prepared to speak on this issue and tell the truth.

I am a revert myself and when these practices are explained properly, then the person realises the beauty in it.

Unfortunately, some reverts have got so far down the line, it would crush them to think one of their precious leaders.. who give themselves the title of Imam.. has lied to them so they choose not to listen.

Insha'Allah may Allah and the Ahlul Bayt a.s guide these people to the truth...



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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Almaz on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Azadar E Mazloom wrote:Unfortunately LabaykYaHussain (as), most of us have already been banned from the above website due to our differing views. However we would LOVE a chance for them to speak to us here so we can correct them Inshallah.


Salaam alaikum

O damn! That is rubbish! If only you could read what they are saying.. I believe they are too scared to come here (their arguments have no.. foundations), they are being rinsed (like a dirty wet cloth) on shiachat and they can't take it (the group of 'Bloodletters' as they call us are small compared to those who dislike Qama Zani and Zanjeer)... yet we are still making them look ridiculous..

One guy was saying he had 'his own Quran' Shocked lol!

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/49989-beating-and-blood/page__st__50

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