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Azadari4Imam update

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:25 am

^^ keep up the good work brother. the truth is plain for all to see.

to be honest, i am astonished that khamenei hasnt even got a resalah, i always assumed that he did!!!! his fatwas carry zero weight whatsoever! wtf is this baqwaas man, how can any thinking person think of him as "supreme" anything?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:35 am

Oh he is 'supreme' lots of things...

...supreme fake.. liar.. joke.... i could go on...!

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:57 am

In fact, the mods have taken a leaf out of Khamenis book by trying to play God on the site and banning people because they have p[Edited] them off!

Excuse my poor language, i am just quoting these Jahils!

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post§ion=post&do=reply_post&f=26&t=49989&qpid=2141667

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Almaz on Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:07 am

These people on ShiaChat are sick.

One of the Admins deleted me without saying anything so I signed up again.. and I questioned him (as to how dare he do such a thing) in a thread and he actually had the audacity to say 'Because I can and if you piss me off I will do it again'.

How pathetic, of course Khamenei doesn't need his resalah, look at his followers.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:21 am

im not a poster on that site any more (nore do i need to be with you guys there now mashallah), but do you mind asking a queustion on my behalf?

- are there any other marjas taqleed in history who have not written a resalah? if not, why not? even taaja musalli dhakku wrote his resalah lol.

also, what exactly does khamenei do all day for him to be too busy to write a resalah? all i can really see is him now and again travelling around giving speeches.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:26 am

In regards to your second question, it has been rumoured he spends time with little boys....

But like I said, that's just a rumour I heard.......

I will try putting your question up insha'Allah

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:27 am

...
And I meant he 'educates' those little boys...

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:31 am

BTW who is taaja musalli dhakku?

Just out of curiosity.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by LabaykYaHussain a.s on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:47 am

And how comes you dont go to the site anymore? Banned?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:01 am

dhakku is a false "ayatollah e uzama" from and based in pakistan, who is doing massive damage to the shia beliefs there, labelling everything as a bida...almost identical views to fadhlallah things. unfortunately he has a huge following in pakistan and here.

if i understand this right, at around the age of 18/ early 20's he went to najaf for a grand total of 6 years. apparantly given ijazat for ijtehad, returned to pakistan, then thirty years later suddenly announced "i am ayatollah e uzama" and has been taking taqleed, collecting khums and issuing fatwas ever since.

does khamenei get involved in the day to day running of the government? does he sit in parliament? i genuinely dont know. if he doesnt, it throws a massive question mark over what exactly he does that makes him so "supreme". he doesnt have a resalah. he doesnt get involved in the day to day running...what does he do that requires us commoners to see him as ayatollah e uzama wali e amr e muslimeen e jehan sirat al mustaqeem wilayat faqih naib imam ameerul momineen?

ive left for a few reasons, i havent been banned, im just fed up of the people there. youve seen yourself what they are like. why waste my time and effort on them when i can do better things?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Almaz on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:35 am

Maula Dha Mallang wrote:dhakku is a false "ayatollah e uzama" from and based in pakistan, who is doing massive damage to the shia beliefs there, labelling everything as a bida...almost identical views to fadhlallah things. unfortunately he has a huge following in pakistan and here.

if i understand this right, at around the age of 18/ early 20's he went to najaf for a grand total of 6 years. apparantly given ijazat for ijtehad, returned to pakistan, then thirty years later suddenly announced "i am ayatollah e uzama" and has been taking taqleed, collecting khums and issuing fatwas ever since.

does khamenei get involved in the day to day running of the government? does he sit in parliament? i genuinely dont know. if he doesnt, it throws a massive question mark over what exactly he does that makes him so "supreme". he doesnt have a resalah. he doesnt get involved in the day to day running...what does he do that requires us commoners to see him as ayatollah e uzama wali e amr e muslimeen e jehan sirat al mustaqeem wilayat faqih naib imam ameerul momineen?

ive left for a few reasons, i havent been banned, im just fed up of the people there. youve seen yourself what they are like. why waste my time and effort on them when i can do better things?

Yes I completley agree..

I am going to just give the admin one more taste of my wrath and then I guess I will be permanently deleted (just for my own satisfaction).

I often thought to myself that as people who are pro tatbir we should always show manners and be careful when debating, but it's impossible, to take these people seriously at all, especially on Shia Chat.

wow I have never heard of Dhakku. I thought there was only two fadhlallah and khamenei.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:16 pm

Almaz wrote:
wow I have never heard of Dhakku. I thought there was only two fadhlallah and khamenei.

http://www.sibtain.com/



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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:30 pm


Salaam alaikum

O damn! That is rubbish! If only you could read what they are saying.. I believe they are too scared to come here (their arguments have no.. foundations), they are being rinsed (like a dirty wet cloth) on shiachat and they can't take it (the group of 'Bloodletters' as they call us are small compared to those who dislike Qama Zani and Zanjeer)... yet we are still making them look ridiculous..

One guy was saying he had 'his own Quran' Shocked lol!


Wa Alaiykum Asalam,

Ya Ali (as) Madad,

Brother it's very easy for one to pretend to be on the Siraal Mustaqeem yet not allow anyone to discuss or debate an issue openly and without fear of being discriminated or oppressed.

We believe in the religion of Allah (swt) taught to us by the Masumin (as) via Qur'an and Ahadith. As per hadith e thaqalayn, ask these same people to prove what they claim to be haram from these sources and they will fall silent, regardless of the armies of muqassir they have waiting for the one person who hasn't yet been banned by them.

If one is following the truth, then use that truth to silence people, NOT the abuse of ones authority.
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by yaaFatima on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:27 am

Salaam alaikum (this is LabaykaYaHussain a.s-- I can't seem to log on to my acc, will email admin)....

I have to be honest that I am a little dumbfounded by these 'people' I have come across on S/C. Are people really that ignorant, to follow someone who doesn't have their own resalah?

In regards to your post Azadar e Mazloom, I checked out that link you sent me for the discussion, can you just clarify for me please these few points (excuse me if it's jumbled, just trying to clear it up in my own head):

On page 1, it says:

The quran has taught us that Hazrat Nuh (lamenter ie Noha reciter) exhibited his distress at the events of Karbala, as did all of the other Prophets(as). The quran gives us the story of Hazrat Yaqub and Hazrat Yousaf (as). The father, Hz Yaqub(as) cried so muchthat he went blind. SELF HARM resulted from his grief....is this not as per your argument barbaric? Does this not give a bad image??

But anyway, can you show me WHERE in the hadeeth literature or the Quran has the expression and manifestion of Muaddat fil Qurba been limited?
If it has not been limited then how can anyone say one form is better than another?.



So from this quote, correct me if I am wrong, what is being said here is that Allah does not limit ones form of Azadari?


And also, if there is a proven Hadith, for example about Lady Zainab s.a, then really what is the need for the maraja'?

I can't get over the fact a 'maraja' would say it is haraam even though there is a proven hadith to support it!!!

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by yaaFatima on Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:41 am

Maula Dha Mallang wrote:
Almaz wrote:
wow I have never heard of Dhakku. I thought there was only two fadhlallah and khamenei.

http://www.sibtain.com/



I checked out his site...

Question # 1:
What is your fatwa about doing matam and zanjir zani, especially the type of zanjir zani which may cause death.
Answer:
As far as matam is concerned it is permitted as per universal laws and human nature, since it is quite natural that when one’s sorrow increases his hands go out of control at times and may hit face or chest – this is natural matam.
And as far as that zanjir-zani or qama is concerned which can cause death, our researcher jurists do not allow it because life is Allah’s sacred amaanat (trust) which He has granted for His worship, therefore it is not permitted to waste it. Allah commands that:
وَلاَ تُلْقُواْ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ إِلَى التَّهْلُكَةِ
“And make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction” (Al-Baqara 2:195)


Since when can zanjir zani cause death!?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Maula Dha Mallang on Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:14 am

yaaFatima wrote:
Since when can zanjir zani cause death!?

indeed. the questions are asked in such a way that these sort of answers come out to make us look as bad as possible.

also...wtf have you seen the ayat he is using as proof? we destroy ourselves by doing azadari?

its there in the biography section, plain as day. he only spent 6 years in najaf, then went to pakistan, theres no mention of what he did for the next 30 years but around 30 years later he suddenly produced his resalah and started calling himself ayatollah e uzama.

i could be wrong here....but surely you need to study in a hawza constantly to reach that level? not go back to sargodha which isnt reknowned for its ancient reputable centres of learning?


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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by yaaFatima on Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:38 am

From what I have read (which isn't a massive amount), this is how certification of a maraja' occurs:

Thus the path of the future leader of the community begins in a seminary. There the student studies the Qu’ran, the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad and also of the first Imam, Ali, and the traditional law code (shari‘a) that previous scholars have elaborated. After a few years, the student may receive from his teacher the title of Hojjat-ol Eslam or “Proof of Islam.” This title does not certify the student to conduct interpretation (ijtihad) for others or to issue religious edicts (fatwa). In order to advance further, the student must complete another round of courses focusing on the process of interpretation and argumentation. If he can satisfy his teacher of his competence after this round of studies, the student may then receive a certificate* that he is qualified to make religious rulings (that he is a mujtahid, i.e., one who performs ijtihad). At this point, he may call himself Ayatollah (“Sign of God”).

*(I have heard that this needs to be signed by more than one maraja)

Out of curiosity, who certified or gave their approval of that particular Marja'?


And regards to your first part, about the destroying ourselves with azadari, how can Prophet Yaqub a.s cry until he is blind, and this be in QURAN, and it was not condemned (blindness being permanent damage) and yet a simple strike with a sword or with chains to the back be considered some form of sucicide?! Lol.. astafgrullah.

Islam does not change, the mind does (i.e our thoughts seem to sway with the day and age we are born into) yet Islam and it's practices and it's evidences (Quran and hadith) are timeless.

Claiming these forms of Azadari are not suitable now because of factors which should be irrelevant (like the 'opinion of the West') I don't understand?

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by yaaFatima on Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:40 am

the fickle opinions of the kuffar must never be a criteria for what is halal and what is haram.

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:39 pm

yaaFatima wrote:Salaam alaikum (this is LabaykaYaHussain a.s-- I can't seem to log on to my acc, will email admin)....

Can you show me WHERE in the hadeeth literature or the Quran has the expression and manifestion of Muaddat fil Qurba been limited?

If it has not been limited then how can anyone say one form is better than another?.

So from this quote, correct me if I am wrong, what is being said here is that Allah does not limit ones form of Azadari?


And also, if there is a proven Hadith, for example about Lady Zainab s.a, then really what is the need for the maraja'?

I can't get over the fact a 'maraja' would say it is haraam even though there is a proven hadith to support it!!!


Assalamu Alaiykum, Ya Ali (as) Madad

I am a bit strapped for time so will show you a hadith that a sister once sent me and this is all in her words:


have you read the book من وهج العشق الحسيني from The Glow of Hussainy Passion by Abdul Haleem AlGhezzi? it is a good book, I want to share with you here some excerpts from the book. ( hadith as well as tafseer of them)


وبعد أن أجلت النظر ياقارئي العزيز في هذه الأحاديث الكريمة فإنّه لابدّ من القول:

1- إنّ هذه الروايات في غاية الاعتبار والقبول من جهة طرقها وأسانيدها ومصادرها عند علمائنا وفقهائنا المتقدمين منهم والمتأخرين. وعليها عمل فقهاء ومراجع الأمة إذ نطقت بذلك أسفارهم وزبرهم. ودونك الأحياء منهم فسلهم، والأمر سهل.

2- متون هذه الروايات تدلّ بشكلٍ واضح وصريح على أنّ الجزع على سيد الشهداء (عليه السلام) مستحبّ مؤكّد وفي غاية التأكيد وبنحوٍ أخص في يوم عاشوراء الأليم.

3- المراد من الجزع في لغة العرب هو نقيض الصبر وهذا ما عليه كلّ المعاجم اللغوية. لذا فإنّ كلّ فعلٍ يفعله صاحب المصيبة يعبّر به عن عدم تحمّله وعن تأثّره الشديد فهو مصداق من مصاديق الجزع؛ إذ لا يوجد في لغة العرب تحديد معيّن لمعنى الجزع وذلك أنّ حقيقته هو الحزن بلا حدود فكيف يكون له حدّ معين وخاص به. لكننا نعتمد على العرف الصحيح في تحديد أقلّ مراتبه وهو العويل والضجيج والصراخ والبكاء الذي لا ينقطع مصحوباً بلطم الوجه وضرب الرأس ولدم الصدر إلى غير ذلك مما يقع في هذه المرتبة الأقل وإنّما قلت الأقلّ لأن المرتبة الأعلى والأشد هي ما يكون فيها هلاك النفس ويظهر هذا واضحاً في الحديث الخامس عن الإمام السجّاد (عليه السلام) حين يقول: (فكادت نفسي تخرج وتبيّنت ذلك مني عمتي زينب الكبرى بنت علي (عليهما السلام) فقالت: مالي أراك تجود بنفسك يا بقية جدي وأبي واخوتي؟!! فقلت وكيف لا أجزع وأهلع.. .. .)، فالتفت ياقارئي العزيز لما جاء في هذه الكلمات الشريفة:

كادت نفسي تخرج: بمعنى أوشكت على الموت أو الهلاك.

مالي أراك تجود بنفسك: بمعنى مالي أراك تريد أن تودّع الحياة.

وهذا التعبير: (تجود بنفسك) في لغة العرب ولسانهم يقال لمن يكون في النزع الأخير لخروج روحه من بدنه أي حينما يكون الموت وشيكاً وقريباً جداً من الإنسان. أمّا قوله (عليه السلام): (وكيف لا أجزع وأهلع) فهو صريح في استحباب الجزع وأفضليته بل الهلع الذي هو أفحش الجزع في لغة العرب؛ إذ لو لم يكن محبوباً عند الله سبحانه وتعالى لما فعله المعصوم (عليه السلام). ومن هنا صرّح الفقيه المحقق الشيخ خضر بن شلال العفكاوي (ره) في كتابه (أبواب الجنان) قائلاً: (الذي يستفاد من مجموع النصوص ومنها الأخبار الواردة في زيارة الحسين المظلوم ولو مع الخوف على النفس يجوز اللطم والجزع على الحسين كيفما كان حتى لو علم بأنه يموت في نفس الوقت).

4- يتّضح ممّا تقدّم أنّ الجزع على الحسين (عليه السلام) على مراتب كثيرة أوّلها الصراخ والعويل والنحيب والبكاء المتواصل مع لدم الصدر والطم الوجه وضرب الرأس باليد أو غيرها، وآخرها ما قد يؤدّي إلى هلاك النفس والإضرار الشديد بها. وقطعاً فإنه يقع ما بين هاتين المرتبتين مراتب كثيرة تتسلسل بحسب شدتها. وما التطبير الحسيني إلاّ مرتبة من هذه المراتب التي تقع في الحد الوسط من حيث الشدّة بل ربما أقل من ذلك وإلاّ فأين يقع جزع التطبير من جزع إمامنا السجّاد (عليه السلام) حين يقول: (فكادت نفسي تخرج) وهو قول يطابق الواقع مائة في المائة ليس فيه أدنى حدّ من المبالغة أو المواربة إذ هو قول المعصوم (عليه السلام) وكلامه، وكلام الإمام إمام الكلام. ثم إنّ التطبير الحسيني لا ضرر فيه على الإنسان وحتى لو كان فيه ضرر فهو ضرر لا يعتدّ به أبداً كما بيّنا ذلك فيما تقدّم من هذا الكتاب. ومن هنا فإنّ مرتبته لن تكون من المراتب الشديدة من الجزع على أبي عبد الله صلوات الله وسلامه عليه.

5- النتيجة التي نحصل عليها بعد تلكم المقدّمات أن التطبير حزناً وجزعاً على سيد الشهداء صلوات الله عليه ما هو إلاّ مرتبة ومصداق من مصاديق الجزع على الحسين (عليه السلام) والذي حكمت الشريعة باستحبابه المؤكّد وندبت إليه أهل الإيمان؛ كي يقتدوا بأئمتهم المعصومين (عليهم السلام) الذين جزعوا حتى كادت النفوس أن تخرج لاجل حسين العقيدة والمبادئ صلوات الله عليه.

6- ويؤيّد هذه المعاني ما تفيض به كلمات دعاء الندبة الشريف الذي يرويه سيدنا ابن طاووس (ره) في إقبال الأعمال، ومصباح الزائر، وجمال الأسبوع، والشيخ المجلسي (ره) في بحار الأنوار:

(فعلى الأطائب من أهل بيت محمّد وعلي صلى الله عليهما وآلهما فليبك الباكون، وإيّاهم فليندب النادبون، ولمثلهم فلتذرف الدموع، وليصرخ الصارخون، ويضجّ الضاجّون، ويعجّ العاجّون، أين الحسن؟! أين الحسين؟! أين أبناء الحسين؟!).

إلى أن يقول الدعاء الشريف:

(أين الطالب بذحول الأنبياء وأبناء الأنبياء؟! أين الطالب بدم المقتول بكربلاء؟!).

ثم يقول مناجياً نادياً:

(هل من معين فأطيل معه العويل والبكاء؟! هل من جزوع فاساعد جزعه إذا خلا؟! هل قذيت عين فساعدتها عيني على القذى؟! هل إليك يا أبن أحمد سبيل فتلقى؟!).

فانظر أيها القارئ العزيز لقول الدعاء الشريف:

1- هل من جزوع: والجزوع بحسب موازين الصرف صيغة مبالغة أي جازع وجازع و.. .

2- هل قذيت عين: إشارة واضحة لما يصيب العين من ضرر أو مرض أو ألم شديد بسبب البكاء والنوح جزعاً على مصاب الحسين (عليه السلام)، وشوقاً وحسرةً على فراق الطالب بثأره صلوات الله وسلامه عليه.

والحرّ تكفيه الإشارة.

1-the ahadeeth preceding are authentic and trusted and have been used by our great scholars

2- the ahadeeth talk about weeping for imam Hussein [asws]

3- (3 is explaining a word in 2-) the least levels of weeping include crying out loud, beating on heads and chests...

Then the hadeeth talks about a conversation between Imam Sajjad [asws] and Bibi Zainab (sa), in which Imam [asws] was weeping so much that he was about to die that Bibi Zainab (sa) hears him and asks why do want to die "O! the one that is left from my grandfather, my dad, and my brothers" (s.a.w.w), he replies how do i not weep...
(then the writer explains what is meant by "weep so much that he was about to die") He [asws] was in the last stages of death, then the Shiekh says that this is a Mustahab action otherwise someone who is Ma'ssom wouldn't have done it... thus sheikh khodor bin shalal al'afkawi in his book "the doors of heavens" says that thus doing ziyarat to Imam Hussein is valid with weeping (beating on chests) even if they knew that they would die at the same time...

please take note that the translation is rough, and i edited some parts of hadeeths and other writing... in other words i took the point of the hadeeth as i understood it so that i dont get blamed of lying and fabricating hadeeths of the Aimmah Masumeen asws ...

4- and 5-:
so doing nadb (beating on chests) comes between crying and (hitting the self+crying+ ......) until the point before death... this is why some maraji's have said that doing nadb is valid...

6- it is reported that in "Bihar al Anwar" (a very trusted book of holy narrations) a dua :
"for the family of Mohammad and Ali {sawas} let the cryers cry, and weepers weep, for those who are like them let cryers cry and shouters shout,... where is Hassan [asws] where is Hussein [asws] , where are the sons of Hussein ?"
until the dua says:
"Where is the one that will avenge the Prophets and the Sons of the Prophets, where is the One that will avenge for the One died in Kerbala'"
then he says while crying:" is there anyone to help so that i would prolong crying with him and help him weep, is there anyone that had his eyes become sick ( became blind) so that my eyes do that too? is there a way to meet you O the son of Ahmad (s.a.w.w.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is the level of grief, just the bare minimum according to the hadith! Crying and beating ones chest to the point of death, and continuing even if you know you would die. Do you have this level of grief, this bare minimum? cry until you go blind, cry and beat your chest until the point of death when someone would try to stop you. This is a SUNNAH of the Aimmah Masumeen asws, and, also, an extreme form of matam.

Can anyone here say they have mourned our Imam enough? Can anyone say what is too much just by these hadith alone?

How can you say you are too educated to do zanjeer? I know doctors and lawyers and corporate people who do this, to be honest it is more prevalent among those who are educated because the can read the writings of the Aimmah Masumeen [asws] and know how important these mustahab actions are....

you say it gives a bad impression of Islam to do these actions, I as an ex christian who converted to islam have to say this was no deterrent to my accepting Islam, and my love for my Imam asws is so great that if I could not do Qama I think I would die, yet, I am a perfectly educated intelligent person.

I believe it is only the Imam atfs who can say what is and is not a quote "bad impression of Islam" and when He atfs comes and tells me not to do it them I will stop that day, but in the meantime my entire christian family knows I do this act and they have no problems with it at all, they know why i do it and that it is due to my love and grief..... they understand love, all we have to do is sit and explain to them our love yet, it is this love I see in your words that you seem quite lacking in, I will make dua for that one day, we all feel the same love and devotion for the Aimmah Masumeen [asws] that I feel!
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Azadar E Mazloom
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by Azadar E Mazloom on Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:46 pm

Also,

Bismillah Hirahman Niraheem

[Shakir 12] And he turned away from them, and said: O my sorrow for Yusuf! and his eyes became white on account of the grief, and he was a repressor (of grief).

[Shakir 12] They said: By Allah! you will not cease to remember Yusuf until you are a prey to constant disease or (until) you are of those who perish.

[Shakir 12] He said: I only complain of my grief and sorrow to Allah, and I know from Allah what you do not know.

So a Masum Nabi (as) of Allah (swt) cried until he was blind and almost until he (as) died so to those that so vehemently oppose Azadari, isn't the above incident an example of extreme mourning and if so, is it wrong?
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Re: Azadari4Imam update

Post by yaaFatima on Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:48 am

Maula Dha Mallang wrote:does someone know how i can get a load of the booklets for me to distribute around manchester? the only way i can contribute in some small way and counter their rubbish is by spreading the word.

Salaam brother,

I know the team are looking for people to help them out for upcoming projects. If you can email them on contact@azadari4imam.org, and mention you would like to help out in the future, insha'Allah they will get back to you.

Khoda Hafiz

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Re: Azadari4Imam update

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